Date of Interview: 10-30-2004 Interview By: Mike Duncan & Jeana Infantino
Mike: Let's start off by introducing yourselves and telling us what you do in the band.
Nate: I'm Nate and I sing and write songs.
Sam: I'm Sam and I play instruments.
Mike: How long have you known each other?
Nate: Nine... eight years? I guess eight years. Right?
Sam: '96.
Mike: Who are your favorite bands, and whose music do you draw upon, if anything, for ideas when writing new material?
Nate: We like stuff like The Beatles, and Pavement, and Cat Stevens, The Beach Boys, and Wilco, and The Cure. And I think in terms of our biggest inspiration musically, it's definitely The Beatles, or something like Harry Nelson, The Beach Boys. Stuff like that. That's definitely the music that we listen to, that's pretty much all we listen to.
Mike: What do you think it is about The Beatles that made them so great?
Sam: If they got any kind of idea, they would try it, and not only try it, but pull it off. And they did that continuously, every single song they made had something... even if it was the smallest thing ever, it had something new and original. More so in their later career. But they were able to pull off pretty much whatever they wanted to. Even if it was stupid, it was still really cool.
Nate: That, and I think probably the three best songwriters specifically in terms of pop songs ever, are in one band. I mean, it doesn't get much better than that. And then to top it off with an amazing drummer and an amazing producer. Just being so much ahead of their time, like in every way... like even now, as much as we would kill to duplicate them, it's impossible. They are a band that can't be mimicked. You don't hear very many bands that people like totally rip off The Beatles, like everything about them, because no one does. But everybody definitely tries to borrow something from them because they are the ultimate band.
Mike: What's the difference between a pop band that styles its music to a particular format, and a band like The Beatles who wrote catchy music and then had it become hugely popular? What holds them apart?
Nate: I just think that now, specifically in pop music, it's just like copying someone or copying something for the time, and things just gradually change. But everything musically is kind of the same, where they're ripping off something that's going on at the time. I mean, The Beatles sort of borrowed from rock music, or from pop music, or motown, or anything like that. And at the time, music wasn't that much developed, specifically on FM radio, you know like it is now, so they were sort of the ones to set the standards.
Mike: How was it working with producer R. Walt Vincent who produced for Pete Yorn and Liz Phair?
Nate: It was good. Walt was awesome. He's a friend, and he's an awesome producer. I think the next time around we're looking for something completely different, and so we're gonna go with someone different. But for what we were doing at the time, Walt was probably what we needed.
Sam: It was just good, because for our first experience on a major label making an album, we were able to do that without being super intimidated by a lot of things that can intimidate you like you can imagine... giant studios, everything like that. But we were still able to keep it on a small level with him and he was just really easy. We wanted to find somebody that we could work with to complete the third person, and he was that. He wasn't all high and mighty and crazy, and the studio was really small. And that was just kind of the feeling that we wanted, and we were able to have that with him.
Mike: To what extent do producers have a say in how you write your music, and do you have any power or any say to veto his or her suggestions?
Nate: Yeah, it's entirely the artist's choice. You know, you go with a producer because you want to have faith in them in terms of songwriting, in terms of if you're unsure of something, you know, if you think maybe a chorus should repeat, anything like that. And if your producer says "I think that it's fine just once," that's just a totally bland example, but that is an example where as a musician and a songwriter, you kind of look at both sides and you make an understanding based on what the producer is saying and his fight for the thing. And inevitably, it's your decision. That's at least how I'm used to doing it, and how I think most musicians are used to doing it. But then I'm sure that there are probably producers who tell the artist what to do and I think the artist will probably gladly just listen to them and that's how it happens.
Sam: I think they're supposed to just be there to help you create what you want to do. Just help you move it along better as a process, but ideally, I'm sure Ashlee Simpson has a producer doing everything for her (laughs).
Mike: We were just talking about that incident.
Jeana: I just told him about that, he didn't even know.
Nate: You still don't know about that? That's insane.
Jeana: Do you have any plans of recording and releasing another album any time soon?
Nate: I don't like to speak too prematurely about things because I've gotten burned for that in the past, but it looks like after the Switchfoot tour is over on November 19th, we're probably going to take a few weeks off from just being a band completely. And then right after that settles, it's probably the two of us back in our rehearsal space writing a whole new record that should probably be ready to record hopefully sometime in the winter, hopefully as early as January.
Jeana: What kind of changes do you expect to encounter in the production of the next release?
Sam: We want to go smaller in some ways. We want to still keep the small aspect of it, but even smaller as far as production goes, I guess would be the better way to put it, in terms of recording. We want it to sound smaller, but be bigger. Just like The Beatles, the same way The Beatles did it. Like, they can have... I mean I hate to keep bringing them up, but it makes sense... like, they can have a song with two instruments that sounds gigantic, but it's so small. Or they can have a song with twenty instruments that sounds small.
Nate: Like everything sort of balancing.
Sam: There's not one instrument holding the song together. There's not an acoustic guitar that's going through the entire song, and that's the backbone of it. It's like each thing is a piece of the line, that makes the whole line.
Nate: Things drop in and out, and things don't necessarily have to repeat themselves. I think for the next record, it's going to be a lot of this: not very much heavy guitar, at all. I don't want to make a record with any sort of heavy guitar and I don't want to make a record that is made so that people can jump up and down or do stupid shit like that. I want to make a pop record in its purest essence and whether that requires a whole bunch of horns, or something as small as a high hat and an accordian, that's all that matters. It's not about making big guitars so that kids can feel secure, I don't know.
Jeana: So it's just you two in the studio? Or is it everyone?
Nate: Yeah, it's just us. I think this time around, we'll probably have some of the guys come in and do a few things. But these songs are sort of like, you know... we work on the same wavelength, so we probably know what the other person's thinking better than anyone else, and so whether I wrote the song or whether he wrote the song, I think we both trust each other to do what's right with the song. And it's a hard thing to bring people into that sort of place. It's not that I don't trust people, but I already know who I have that I can do that with, and a lot of times, more people can clutter that up.
Jeana: You guys have good song-writing chemistry, huh?
Nate: I think for the most part. It's been a while; we haven't written a song in a while. But I assume that as soon as we get back into it, it should be good. Like, I know that I've got a whole bunch of stuff going on in my head and I know that we should be... yeah. It should be there. It's a lot different this time around. Last time it was definitely a lot more collaborative outwrite, in terms of writing the song. I think this time, it's going to be a lot more collaborative in the studio in terms of building the song. And that's more important, because the two of us don't need help anymore from each other on how the song should be structured or anything like that. The two of us just need to be able to build the song in the studio together, and picture how we want the song to go. Other than that, either one of us is capable of putting a song together. Songs, when they're stripped down, can be beautiful songs, and that's fine. I think we can write those. But a lot of times, songs need something like horns or something to make them a better song. And so we'll figure all that stuff out.
Jeana: What's the toughest decision or thing you've had to face in getting to where you are today?
Sam: The toughest thing we've gone through is just our label. We don't really care, but it's been more of just a road block, like a mental road block I guess. Even though it stopped us from doing certain things, we still kept doing what was important. So that was probably the hardest thing to deal with. Coming to the point where the label's gone, and there's a new label, and you have to try to do your best to get off of it, and then have that not happen and having to re-accept the fact that you're on a label, again, with the possibility of going through the exact same thing that you just went through. That's the hardest part. But overall, we really don't care, because no matter what they do, we can still go on tour and we can still play music. It's not going to stop us from doing anything, it's just kind of a distraction.
Nate: Yeah, it's a huge distraction. Because inevitably, they are the people that are paying for our record. Specifically, this time around, we're going to make a record that I know won't be accepted by the masses. And I think that this one, for as young as we were... and I'm proud of it... I think it was definitely a more accessible album for people's ears, and they had their opportunity to sort of do something with that. And unfortunately our one label folded and the new label that we got stuck on, it was too late for them to do anything about it. And so commercially and record label wise, that album was thrown away. I mean, personally it's not thrown away, and to the people that have bought it and that have appreciated it, it's definitely not thrown away. We don't feel like that, but to them, they're done with it; they're not going to do anything else with it, which I think is a mistake on their part because we're not going to give them anything that they can probably work with, in terms with making us some huge, crazy band that a record label would want to sign anyways. We're completely different people and we've tried to point that out to them. And we've asked them, politely and impolitely, to let us leave the label and go find an indie label or at least someone that's going to understand what we're looking for, and they seem to think everything's fine. So if they want to keep paying for it, then so be it. No matter what, I know that I don't need a video or I don't need my song on the radio to feel comfortable. All I need is just to know that I'm writing the music that I want to write, and that people are appreciating it... and that I get to be in a band... in this bus... it's a new thing (laughs). You know, we'll be back in a van very shortly. All I need is a van, and all my friends to justify that and enjoy myself.
Jeana: Being that you're all together on the road right now, is there ever a problem of getting on each other's nerves? Or how do you find time to be by yourselves?
Nate: We easily get on each other's nerves. I think it's inevitable. It's even more... well... not even more so on the bus, but we can get away. We get to the venues early and people can walk around if they want to, or we can go into our little bunk area and listen to music. That's what I do.
Jeana: Can any of you play any instruments that you don't play on stage or on the record?
Sam: No.
Nate: You don't play banjo on stage.
Sam: Any instrument that I could play on a CD, I've probably never played it live. The only thing I've ever played live was piano and guitar. And other instruments, like the stuff I played on the album or stuff that will be on the next one, even more so. It's not like I'm really good at it. It's just like, if you know how to play piano, you can play pretty much anything with a key, at least a little bit. If you can play guitar, you can play banjo or bass a little bit. But I'm not like a professional violin player or anything like that.
Nate: Unless you're Prince.
Sam: Unless you're Prince and you can play twenty instruments professionally.
Jeana: Have you had any weird or really cool moments with fans that you've met around the country?
Nate: We saw tattoos.
Sam: Oh, he got another one. Did I tell you that?
Nate: That's overboard.
Sam: This kid got a tattoo of a shirt design, which was completely retarded... No, I think it's awesome, but I feel bad, because I know he's going to hate it. This kid got this tattoo on his arm, and he convinced his friend to get a tattoo on her wrist, and then I got a picture of another one. He got the album cover on his forearm, right here, and he said that he was getting the EP on his back (laughs). Which is like, starting to freak me out a little bit. Like I appreciate what he's doing... that's such a huge commitment to a band that it's just kind of scary. We have like four friends, or maybe more, I don't know... four or five friends, that have Alkaline Trio tattoos on their backs.
Nate: Yeah, and I don't even think that they care much about the band anymore. But they're always going to act like they do. At the time they got it, Alkaline Trio was starting to not be... well actually they were pretty bad at the time. I liked the first Alkaline Trio record, I love it. It's amazing, but I would have never gotten the tattoo. By the time they got it, it was the third album, where it was like, "This is old," to me.
Sam: It's not that bad. Like, it doesn't say, "Alkaline Trio," so at least you could like... by the time everybody forgets who the band is, you could just say it's another tattoo. But like, this kid, it actually says, "The Format." And the girl, it's no artwork, it just says "The Format," that's it. Just on her wrist right here.
Nate: It's flattering though. It's like super flattering, but it's just kinda weird.
Sam: I need pictures, to show my kids and my grandkids.
Jeana: They love your music. They want to always remember that.
Sam: Yeah. It's pretty insane.
Jeana: Alright, and the last question is: are you going to do something tomorrow for Halloween? Are you going to dress up or anything?
Nate: We're playing in New Jersey, and we're supposed to be Wizard Of Oz characters, but I don't think... hopefully we get to New Jersey tomorrow, we can set all that up. I'm ready, like, I want to do it. I want to be Dorothy, but I think someone else is fighting to be Dorothy, so I might have to try something different.
Jeana: Did you see Saves The Day when they dressed up? They dressed up as Wizard Of Oz last Halloween.
Nate: Oh, nevermind. No no no, it's done, thank you very much. Now we have to find something else.
Jeana: No, I'm sorry, you can do it! It was in Texas. That's far.
Nate: We should be the cast of Friends. We should be the cast of Friends!
Sam: How do you dress up as the cast of Friends?
Nate: We'll find a way. There are a few people with long hair. They can be the girls.
Mike: Jeana, you've completely altered history as we know it.
Jeana: I think that's good though: to wear red shoes and stuff. Sorry...
Nate: Somebody's already done it. Don's big idea. I'm sure he probably got it...
Sam: He probably knew about it already.
Jeana: It was in like Houston or something. They're not gonna be there.
Nate: It doesn't matter.
Sam: Everyone would be like, "Oh yeah, we've seen that already."
Nate: Yeah. We totally saw that. It was a good show.
